126590-world-bosses
Content ---- It has slowed down for sure. There are still groups running, but not all the time. Try asking your guildies about it? Since you want to raid I assume you have a guild? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- It only takes 100 items now, since drop 5. What's funny is I've seen far less Hellrose since then too lol | |} ---- You're going to need a team for raiding, so just do the world bosses with your team. Lord forbid! | |} ---- Something else that might raise your chances is to mention you have a summon available, which saves people a lot of running time for certain bosses. So, try to get that one checked off first when you start a group, either by being a scientist (heh, yea...), or by getting a scientist into your group early on. | |} ---- ---- Collect broadcasting equipment from mobs near the bowl; it's a random drop. When you get enough equipment the event will start and you'll fight a variety of bosses in the ring. It's I think 3 world bosses total, so people are always willing to jump in as you get close to opening it because it's a big boost on attunement. | |} ---- ---- Ah okay. I'd wondered! Maybe someday I will catch it in progress... | |} ---- ---- That's great news to here. Already looking forward to drop 6. | |} ---- oh. i was expecting that one :) hopefully you guys find a way to make them relevant (and hard hitting) even on a fully DS geared character. | |} ---- ---- Adding Friendly Fire and dropping raid quality loot if more than 20 people participate? | |} ---- Hopefully that's not the case, as that would seem to invalidate the WB step of attainment somewhat. | |} ---- Yay exciting! | |} ---- And right as I finish that step too! Crafty developer... | |} ---- ---- Why tease us??? In the name of the Dominion I order you to tell us what you have planned! I do world bosses as much as I can with my guild. On EU dommy, there seems to be a lot of groups going for it. | |} ---- ---- people don't care for gameplay. just give them "rewards" aka: i <3 Scorchwing lagfest and i don't play the new adventure Bay of Betrayal. vicious circle here... the grind is needed to get somewhere (need the gear/stat) so people do the easiest way to grind (even if boring) and end up leaving the game because it feels like a chore. bad design is bad. | |} ---- It's not the design... | |} ---- ---- There are a few world bosses that are like this. Zoetic in Wilderrun comes to mind, I enjoyed that one. Kraggar is similar but more frustrating for most because of his insta wipe mechanics. | |} ---- ---- Moar of this http://www.twitch.tv/spicypinata/b/663076496?t=0h48m24s pls. | |} ---- ---- Zoetic is loads of fun and kraggar can be too, but neither are really wipeable. You might lose a person or two, but nothing stops you from graveyard running. WoW's world bosses had mechanics that effectively stopped people from graveyard running (kazzaks, 70k heal and 3 min enrage time, and the blue dragons 15 minute freeze debuff) | |} ---- WB u spawn for the last part of the pink weapon imbuement. | |} ---- the bosses should not be "wipeable". remember here, its an mmo. people like easy farming. (you could make variants of the world bosses as Vet content in a boss-in-a-box instances) but you need to leave some farmable content for my aunty that plays mmos. but, that aside, they still need to be fun enough and not laggy so that people enjoy them. wildstar being trinity based makes it hard to design a "world boss" that can be done with pugs no matter if you have tanks and/or healers. so basically, unless some genius comes up with a magical idea... the world boss fights are doomed to be facerollable. BUT, that doesn't mean they have to be boring on top of that. you can make them fun to play, and have some kind of danger in them, even if in the end, they are always won by the players. but you have to make them fun in repetition even for a DS geared player. which is why i'm a big fan of "power level scaling". at the moment, the fact that you are basically immune to them in DS gear is killing it for endgame players. and obviously, find a solution to the swarming so that lag is manageable. but not having either player scaling, nor event/boss scaling (like gw2) is just a huge setback. | |} ---- ---- ---- thats what i'm saying. faceroll it needs to be... but at least they can be fun, and doable no matter what your level/gear is. (in case of gw2's because of level scaling that allows geared players to enjoy lower level content. you could add to that the craftsmanship because world bosses don't only look like inflated mobs and the down mechanic that create danger etc) | |} ---- ---- just make it so that players are "downscaled" to the power level of the zone level they are in (or instance for that matter). like a very HARSH diminishing return for stats above the zone level cap the designer decide. so that yes, a fully geared DS player would still be stronger but not that much (depending on where you put the stat DR cap). like gw2 basically.... ( i hate always repeating that, but that game simply have GREAT design ideas hidden here and there) | |} ---- Yeah, I'm not even sure where to jump into that discussion. It's not making any sense. GW2 is not a team game, it's a solo game, so bosses there are just for the experience of it, not the challenge. A true MMO where teams and roles are present needs bosses that are first a puzzle, then a matter of execution... even (especially!) world bosses. | |} ---- no disconnect. the boss will be faceroll, but not "as much". you basically put the faceroll bar a bit higher.. and btw, the only reason they have to be facerollable is because they need to be farmable and world boss are basically your auntie's group content... but that aside, there is a difference between faceroll and FACEROLL. | |} ---- you could make world bosses as a team mechanic.. but they would probably have to be instanced... the idea of world bosses in the open world in my book is more as farmable easy content for aunties and such. things you do on autopilot almost (to a certain extent, they still need to have a degree of fun to them, hence the need for downscaling. cause they are fun when you are of their level! but not when your 50+geared...) if you want to leave the world boss as content anybody can jump in then you cannot design them very intricately because of the trinity and the fact that you basically won't know the proportion of healers/dps/tanks. you could put some kind of "danger mechanic" that disregard classes/roles; like holes in the ground that makes you fall to your death, or telegraph that if you get caught in you are thrown in the air very far and need to come back (+ you get a nice aerial view ) stuff like that "is" fun (and isn't bugged down by trinity/roles/power) on the other hand if you want to design them as more "organized team content"... i think they need to be instanced. what way i think Carbine will choose ? rallying downscaling ? instancing ? with a Vet Version ? fun mechanics that isn't only "dmg" ? and some QoL stuff like: adding them to the group finder and/or in game timers ? its going to be along those lines... i doubt they will just put an extra basic dmg telegraph on them and call it a day.. but it could be just extra rewards (like the only reason ever people do scorchwing now...) but i doubt it too as TT said "more fun" (i hope we are on the same page here) not saying there won't be extra rewards though.. | |} ---- ---- I think world bosses in vanilla WoW were done the right way. They were as intricate as any instanced raid boss with varying mechanics... they even had mechanics that a bystander not in your group could cause a wipe on! Best of all they were taggable so there was always friendly server competition to see who could get to the boss, control and tag it first (and then not wipe). And on a PvP server it was always a war. Good social MMO content at its finest. They are terrible in WoW today of course, loot bags and a waste of time and nothing more. They just don't hold any value to me like that, and definitely shouldn't be called a boss. | |} ---- kind of. thats how i see it too for world bosses in the current market. wildstar have a mobile gameplay to help here! now its a question of making it cool and "balanced" enough so that "most people" can do it (considering the average mobile/jumping etc gameplay skill) but then again.. if you die you could just respawn and get carried to the reward anyway. so thats cool. you participate, you have the reward. (maybe some achievements/titles if you perform really well) | |} ---- nope. not that. old school is not the way to go. | |} ---- I definitely understand that might be considered "harsh" by today's standards, but, what meaning is there to a world boss if the only requirements are to show up and push buttons for 10 minutes, without even communicating with other players? | |} ---- Well there is a reason why the market is shifting away from that type of content. Like it or hate it, but success does not come to those who ignore the market. | |} ---- That's not how I think of open world bosses at all. :/ | |} ---- the button pushing needs to be fun. agreed. but the world bosses having raid style mechanics? i personally don't think so. there is enough coordinated group content in wildstar as it is. and you want the world boss to be doable for any level of toons (to make them more repeatable). its a question of nailing the "fun" part of it. then, should the world boss be tough enough so that a decent group (qty wise) can fail them ? so you'll need DS geared healers and tanks to make them happen ? and players of the zone level just feel like not contributing ? nope i don't think so either. so if you have mechanics that disregard power level of toons and roles to some extent you are on the right path for this type of content. unless you make them as a "vet version" and instanced. then they could be raid-style. | |} ---- ---- so basically, you would just make them harder, more damaging and requiring more coordination (tanks/healers/interrupts etc). what do you do about the powercreep ? and the fact that both a level 10 player and a DS geared player might fight the same world boss? how do you work the "mechanics" ? as it is a geared lvl 50 can heal thru all the dmg no sweat. without at least downscaling of high level players in lower level zone you hit a wall. i've given solutions (mechanics that are not based on power level nor dmg nor healing but that are fun and dangerous for all). i'd like to know yours... | |} ---- Try Kraggar as a Dominion player. ;) | |} ---- I've seen poor solo Dominion running up while we're fighting Metal Maw and I'm like "noooo don't stand in that red because I can't heal you!" And then they die, which makes me sad. Fortunately they are usually Chua which means there are millions of other minions to replace them. | |} ---- We'll make sure it properly grants credit for stuff when he's defeated. | |} ---- I rather like how the world bosses are balanced now when fought at the appropriate level. I think in Rift if you are higher level and attack a low level zone boss, it auto-"debuffs" your damage output, plus there is voluntary mentoring where you can select what level you want to be synced down to. I know WildStar has something of a mentor system, though I believe it only works if the person you want to mentor to is in your party, and you are restricted in that you can only mentor down to their level; it's inaccessible if you're on your own or just with a bunch of high level people already. | |} ---- Can you fix DPU on Farside as well please? It doesn't give an achievement when killed, but it apparently gives credit only if you are on the world boss step of attunement, so it's not retroactive like all the other bosses. Oh, and just in case you guys haven't been bombarded with enough bug reports about it: 1) DPU sometimes resets for no reason 2) King Honeybutt more than sometimes resets for no reason 3) Metal Maw Prime sometimes resets for no reason and sometimes the panel to activate him cannot be interacted with even though Metal Maw himself is visible Thanks! | |} ---- if you put in"downscaling" for players going to lower level zones and even instances you cure a lot of the issues! then all the discussion is dope. basically if they are able to put that into the game's pve... they win the first test and it'll then be only a matter of giving the right rewards. | |} ---- Scaling has always proven to deliver sub-par experiences. That's one of the problems with Guild Wars 2 encounters... you can't just scale down level, dynamically according to amount of players, and leave in tact higher-impact player abilities unlocked at higher levels, etc. It just ends up in a super-poor experience overall. I.e. GW2 boss fights. I feel that hand-crafted content is the way to go, especially for a boss fight in order to have creative mechanics. If players can zerg it, i guess so be it... it comes with the pillow mechanics of open world bosses. But at least it will feel like the player accomplished something upon defeating it, or it will inspire lower level players seeing it for the first time. | |} ---- :\ and you think high level players will enjoy beating on a boss that can barely scratch them for how long ? we really see the opposite you and me. and obviously, i'm the one who's right. downscaling would just make it so higher level players would still have a slight challenge. obviously they won't be as weak as actual low level players, but they won't be god in a one-shot land... and then you bring gw2 into this.. and can you imagine if there was no downscaling in gw2 ? keep the same encounter but allow players to out level the fight drastically. WHAT A FAIL. already gw2 boss encounters aren't that great (at least the vanilla ones) please don't allow players to not even be scratched by the bosses attacks by not downscaling them! you want challenging, repeatable open world boss fights even at max level???????? that is what you want right? by that i understand that even a world boss in a level 10 zone would pose a threat for a level 50. then without downscaling there are these options; 1- mechanics that disregards power levels (i.e.: one shot mechanics) 2- having a "veteran version" of those bosses in instances or elsewhere than the level 10 zone. 3- making the boss all as level 50 power thus making the player in the actual zone level bracket useless. you make no sense at all :\ please provide actual solution otherwise you make no sense. | |} ---- Short version: There should be no low level world bosses, even in low level zones. They should all be aimed at max-level players, and serve as inspiration for lower level players. And if my experience with WoW world bosses for the last 2 expansions is any indiction, players *love* beating on a boss that won't scratch them. They'll even complain if you kill it before they get there, because all they want is loot, not fun. | |} ---- ---- ? weren't you the one who said you want challenging and 1 pug guy can make you wipe etc ? you're losing me... then i said bosses are ok to be face rolled to a certain extent and you argued with me... you know what. your signature makes sense "ignore" is what it'll be.... otherwise i'll get nasty. | |} ---- same goes both way ? they hit you as if they were your level ? it also doesn't help power creep. so i'd prefer a total downscaling. downscaling also allows completionists to not out level the content they do because they got all the possible xp from the earlier stuff and are now 5 levels over the main quest. as i suggest, already having amps and abilities is a good thing. so a "downscaled" player would still be stronger. plus the downscaling doesn't need to be 100%. could be 75%. it is a system made of win i think. solves a lot of issues and doesn't create any problems. | |} ---- ? indeed. Yes, world bosses should be punishing and be only for max level players. I don't know how to be more clear than that. | |} ---- This is how world bosses were in Vanilla WoW/BC. Doom Lord Kazzak had a 3 minute enrage timer and would heal for 70k if anyone near him died. He also used a long range shadowbolt volley that hit everyone in its range. This means if there was a random pug in range of the volley who died, DLK would heal and you would fail the enrage timer. This is the how the new world bosses in WoD/MoP work, different time for the game. I'm pretty sure he doesn't like this model. | |} ---- While I agree with you that world bosses should have a level of challenge, I could not disagree more that they should be unavailable to lower level players. This is a symptom of "the game doesn't start until level cap", which is a mindset I am really so incredibly tired of in MMOs, as someone who generally enjoys the experience of leveling a character - often more than the grind at cap. The "mid-game", as it's been called, deserves attention and challenge in instanced and open world content, too. | |} ---- world bosses do have a level of challenge (i guess) when you're the right level. but then if you make them rewarding for level 50 players... you're going to see the Scorchwing problem everywhere. huge face rolls and players of the relevant levels feeling useless in a boring fight. i also don't agree with only making world boss as endgame stuff (i'd rather see a veteran version of them... but that is taxing on the devs and splits the population, so i'd rather just have a downscaling system in place or mechanics that are not related to power level of toons). but hey, lets get into a funnier game: what do you think Carbine WILL DO ? :D | |} ---- ---- will look into each of those as well. | |} ---- euh.... nobody said that...? the point/question is how to make world bosses relevant and repeatable and challenging/fun for high level players aside from just putting extra loot (aka: the scorchwing fail) aside from that; yeah, there need to be some kind of "quest" that pops in your log when the world boss is active/spawns in a zone you are in. | |} ---- No one's said that. Lethality has said that he doesn't want them to be for low level players, though, which is probably where your confusion is coming from. On the topic of world bosses, I'd love to see more fun stuff added to their loot tables - decor, pets, mounts, etc. But don't use the weird as heck contribution system to distribute the loot. I have yet to figure out why some people get 1 and some people get 0... | |} ---- Add world bosses to the contracts and create a zerg while buffing their damage slightly but making no significant changes to how they work. I like the what do I want carbine to do game better. 1) Give all world bosses unique models aka not just upscaled mobs 2) Rework boss difficulty make them challenging and fun fights with multiple phases and steps - design mechanics that are different than raid mechanics (tank/heal/dps) but still require precise execution 3) Give them more health based on the number of people within a range of the mob - I like really long world boss fights (15-20 minutes) 4) change damage they do to %based damage (i.e. autoattacks do 120% health, mitigated by armor) - all levels take damage equally 5) change loot to be reward appropriate to players level 6) hard modes for better loot (i.e. my earlier zoetic post) | |} ---- If this was done, attunement would become very painful. | |} ---- true that, unless low level players were incentivized to get boss kills while leveling in zones or world bosses were reduced for attunement. Fun bosses with good rewards > boring zergfests no-one kills outside of pets/attunement | |} ---- if they do that i'm laughing my way out. i hope they understand that farmable world bosses (with a good revamp that still poses small challenge for high level players and make them fun) will basically get more playtime than any adventure/dungeon they can release. | |} ---- Totally agree. I think the problem with WBs is that they do tend to become zergfests if there is any incentive to do them. Killing scorch for a contract is not fun in the least. The majority of the time is being board waiting for the bird to pop. | |} ---- Well, there's really no escaping in a vertical progression system that players will spend more time at the level cap than any other level. So there can be fun things to do along the way (and WildStar has TONS of them) but for the "expensive" content it feels like placing it at level cap is the right thing to do. I do understand that folks like to level alts, but isn't there a ton of variety already in terms of race, class, faction, path, tradeskills, challenges, public events, zones, etc? I think WildStar has more of that than pretty much any other leveling game I can think of! More variety could always be welcome, but in terms of "world bosses" that just feels more like a cap thing to me. They have been weak in recent WoW and SW:TOR and GW:2 and I feel its all because of trying to accommodate lower levels. | |} ---- ---- Agreed. Tequatl, The Shatterer, and the Shadow of the Dragon as well. Good examples of a fun boss-fight that doesn't feel like a simple zerg fest. Edit: just remembered that the Shadow of the Dragon is actually a single player event. A very cool single player event where you fight a vine dragon with magic fire. | |} ---- No, there isn't. Faction has weight only until the middle fo Whitevale. Then both factions become mirror versions of each other with some minor differences (text quest and some quests here and there). Race is mostly aesthetic and thus it's weight, while important, cannot do anything when faced with the same levelling path you did the last time. Paths are supposed to spice that up, but they are very similar (if not the same) for both factions and (since the last time I checked) they do not provide good experience compared with questing. Public Events? I think I can count the events I did and saw while leveling up with one hand. Zones? As I stated before, they are all the same after Whitevale. For both factions. Even if you are into housing you will want your alt to reach level 50 as soon as possible because there's a bunch of decor and FABkits that are level or reputation locked. So no, there isn't that much to do during leveling besides leveling. Adding World Bosses as 'level 50 only' events is putting more cards into the 'endgame is the goal!' mentality which, let's be honest here, is where Wildstar put all of their cards already. | |} ---- Not really, no. There's very little variety in leveling route, even when you consider the faction divide (the story for Exiles and Dominion is virtually identical from the Lopps in Whitevale and onward). Public events are few and far between. Tradeskills aren't really something I'd categorize into the leveling experience. Challenges are a good diversion, as are the paths though there are only four of them (and aren't really all that different across faction, especially given the convergence of missions post-Lopp-Whitevale). Playing a different race or class is one of the main reasons to roll an alt but that is just the very base of the leveling experience. All in all, there are games out there that offer far greater "variety" in terms of leveling experience. Basically, why take content away from mid-game? The lower level world bosses are a fun thing to encounter as a lower level character. | |} ---- I mean, you're gonna pick every possible variance apart as a negative? So what game *does* provide more variety than WildStar leveling, and specifically why? Endgame *is* the goal... it's a vertical progression system. Players will spend orders of magnitude at level cap than at any other level. So it makes sense to load the content that way. What's needed is simply more support at end game for solo and small groups, and they are getting there w/ Contracts. Well, as I said to Ildur above... what game possibly offers more than WildStar in terms of variety of leveling experience? And the reasoning is that players constantly push through every level except level cap. That's why I feel it's not terribly worth it to put extra content beyond the leveling basics there. I mean, it would be nice but if you have limited resources (which we appear to) then I think it makes sense to invest where most players will spend the most time. Plus I really feel that seeing those kinds of encounters as a low level player look exciting and gives them something to inspire them to push on. | |} ---- ---- ESO. - Very active low level PvP - Easily accessible dungeons - Very alt friendly - Constant character progression - This is a very big point. You are constantly getting new skills and morphing existing skills and it changes how your character plays. It is WAY better than WS where new skills/tiering up skills doesn't really do that much for your gameplay experience. WS has terrible character progression. - Healthy economy and tons of players rolling lots of alts makes low level gear and crafting active on the guild stores - Massive open immersive world | |} ---- I want this in WildStar... looking at my no amps/ability points, unattuned Engineer makes me sad. | |} ---- Well, people answered already to your question. But to give a bit of a more general vibe: Wildstar is a linear path. Any game that offers more than one way to the goal (endgame) will be immediately offer more variance. The easiest is to have two distinct levelling paths. As an aside: Paths could have been alternative levelling methods, but that got shafted at some point. Now they are basically aesthetical. You will always have to reach level 50 by doing the same sequence of quests. Then why bother with levelling at all? If endgame is all that matters, then why not use all those assets into more endgame and have just an extended tutorial? Or is that also the fault of the silly players who don't know what they like? They are getting there, but Contracts are basically just more rewarding Dailies. And remember that the Tier III Contracts ask you to take part in group content. Their advantage is that two of them (Scorchwing and Star-comm) can be done in the open world without a raid...in theory anyway. But the "get a bronze medal in an adventure/dungeon"? Those are attempts at pushing soloers into that kind of content. Because everyone would become HARDCORE if they only tried it, right? Again, why bother with levelling if it doesn't matter? There's also a big problem with this: the only reason players spend so much time at endgame is because the game is designed that way. They designed the leveling experience to not last that long and to not reward anything beyond 'get to the next level!'. It's circular logic: Player's will breeze through levels, so levels don't matter. Levels don't matter, so players will breeze through levels! | |} ---- Because in the end, these are RPGs telling a story. The leveling delivers narrative and defines your character's place in the world while introducing you to the protagonists, antagonists, etc. It's a big. grand adventure. | |} ---- That's a weak answer. You are implying that they couldn't have made the narrative part of the actual important part of the game (the end-game). That they couldn't possibly introduce characters, the world and the big grand adventure in any other way but to use content that isn't actually relevant to the endgame. | |} ---- A lot of folks don't particularly care about that and instead like to experience alts and different classes and different aspects of the world and story. They are not doing it wrong simply because you would prefer that they just keep climbing because they're not actually looking to climb Everest. I would guess that if you asked how many people had taken more than one character through the leveling game in a given faction, you'd have a much larger fraction of the playerbase than those who are or have worked their way through Datascape. So a more diverse leveling route probably would have been used by more of the playerbase. | |} ---- ---- Weak answer? It's the best possible answer. The leveling process gives meaning to what you're doing at end game. Stop trying to argue just for the sake of it. | |} ---- Carbine banked on the fact that they had SO much content to do that one character would have hard time actually experiencing it all. But through that effort they did provide some variety if someone wanted a change of pace for a while. However I fully expect they intended that players would be so driven to progress through the elder game that alts would be a secondary or tertiary activity, more so than other games who need them to make up for lack of content. SW:TOR comes to mind. The only part of the plan that failed here was just how many players wanted easy mode and end game and didn't find it, so didn't put in the effort. And the lack of end game for solo and groups. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- If I remember correctly, per zone, does WoW not have more quests? I honestly think WS has very little quests. | |} ---- Little quests? I think you are mistaken sir. no offence! | |} ---- ---- Speaking of attunement. Why is the Adventure Step not retroactive? Also, why isn't Bay of Betrayal or Protostar Games included/an option in the adventure and dungeon steps of attunement? | |} ---- THIS is close to confirmed to come with F2P:) and they will prob cut some of the sick grind needed. Personally I have stopped all attuning unthil F2P I'm 4/13 | |} ----